abcdefghijklmnopqrstuvwxyzABCDEFGHIJKLMNOPQRSTUVWXYZ
Mami, MS1: So the secondary essay was more like details about my disability experience with all those like diagnosis disclosed, if there was, a chance, of course. Some of the questions were like what are the challenges you have?
And then I explain, okay, so these are my weaknesses like reading struggles. Which was obvious if you look at my MCAT scores. But I also say, oh, because I struggle with reading, I had a hard time reading papers in my PhD. And researchers do read a lot to learn about current research. But I couldn't do that.
So actually, I started talking to a lot of people, which gave me a lot of like opportunities to work with them.
So I got a lot of papers published. And because of my reading struggles, I got more papers than anyone else and I'm actually finishing my PhD a year early because of that.
Stephanie Moss, MD: Welcome to life as a patient doctor. I'm your host, Dr. Stephanie Moss, navigating life as a patient and a medical doctor. Walk alongside me as I reflect on the challenges and triumphs and lessons I've learned over the years. Undergoing medical education with invisible disabilities. Join me as I interview other doctors, students, and healthcare workers on their own journeys, listen to their unique stories on how they balance their health while caring for others in the health profession.
Introduction to Mami's Inspiring Journey
Stephanie Moss, MD: Welcome everyone. Today I have a very special guest. I am interviewing Mami, who is a PhD student at the University of Michigan, thriving with autism, ADHD, and several other disabilities. Her dissertation focuses on the translation of chemistry into PET imaging, which has motivated her career in medicine.
Throughout the medical school application process, she openly disclosed her own disabilities.
And this summer, she will start her new career as a first year medical student. Welcome, Mami.
Mami, MS1: Thank you. Thank you for having me.
Stephanie Moss, MD: I'm so glad to have you.
Early Interest in Medicine and PHD in Chemistry
Stephanie Moss, MD: I would love to hear a little bit about your journey into the medical field.
Mami, MS1: Yeah, sure. So I'm in the PhD in chemistry. So when I started my PhD, I didn't think about going to med school. So I was this career change. But actually, a lot of my friends don't know this. This wasn't the first time I was interested in medicine.
In middle school, high school, like I wanted to become a surgeon and I'm so nerdy and I guess I didn't have any friends in school.
So I was like always practicing the surgical knots in classrooms. And one of my classmates asked me like what I was doing. So I'm like, Oh yeah, I want to be a doctor.
So I'm, doing like this practicing. And she said, Oh, I have an uncle who has a big community hospital in a different state, and would you like to shadow?
I went there. It was a great opportunity, though, but that was the last time I touched my surgical knot practice kit. Because It was so overwhelming. I didn't know what to expect. And I guess like with autism, I had a lot of struggles in school or like in social setting. And that really overwhelmed me.
And I thought, Oh, I don't think I can do it, because I didn't have confidence in myself. So I decided to pursue like some other career and chemistry was my favorite at that time. Decided to become a chemist.
But then, after I started my PhD my second year I started collaboratin with radiology here at Michigan, and I did some PET studies using monkeys, and I'm like, wow, this reminds me of my shadowing time.
And I just started thinking about it, like what I wanted to do. And the shadowing experience was like 10 years ago, more than 10 years ago. Yeah. I feel like so old. But I think I learned a lot more skills to reassess. like my abilities to do more clinical work. While doing my PhD, I started like doing some volunteering as a medical assistant or volunteering in the emergency department.
Took some biology classes and. And I thought, this is something I really want to do. If I don't do it now, I'll regret forever. So yeah, that's my journey. Just starting, I think yeah, I'm excited.
Stephanie Moss, MD: I love that. How cool that. You had that experience all the way since high school.
I can imagine like being in high school and watching you do a surgeon's knot and be like, wait, how do you know how to do that? I just learned that in my third year of medical school and you're already doing that in high school. That's amazing.
Mami, MS1: I just found this like book in the library and oh, that's cool because I'm a very visual person. So all the sketching and that kind of thing has attracted me.
Stephanie Moss, MD: Oh, yeah, that totally makes sense. So then what interests you to go like the chemistry and then PhD route? That's interesting.
Mami, MS1: Yeah, I think chemistry, I'm like very hands on person. And I always loved science. I did study chemistry, math and physics in community college. And I, I loved all those science subjects.
But when I decided to pick a specific major in the four year university, I'm like, Yeah, I want to do more like experiments and chemistry seemed the best one because math just sit in a, sit in and write down some formula and stuff like that, which is fun, but also yeah, I want to like, set up some reaction to cook something in the lab.
Stephanie Moss, MD: Oh yes. That was my favorite part of college. Definitely like the organic chemistry lab. That was also, that was so much fun.
Mami, MS1: Oh, you liked it?
Stephanie Moss, MD: Oh yeah. I loved organic chemistry. I don't know how, but I think I'm the same thing. Visual. It helped that I could play around with the molecules and play around with the atoms and be like, okay, that's how that made sense.
Stephanie Moss, MD: So I understand.
Mami, MS1: Oh yeah, like organic chemistry, you draw like structures, you don't need to read the long sentence sometimes you have to, but yeah.
Stephanie Moss, MD: Yes, no, I totally get it.
Mami shared that her first interest in medicine began in middle school, where she aspired to become a surgeon. She was so dedicated to this goal that she practiced surgical knots in class. Despite these early ambitions, Mami found herself gravitating towards chemistry during her higher education years. However, an influential research opportunity in radiology rekindled her passion for clinical medicine, ultimately steering her towards a career in the medical field.
Mami’s inspiring journey from a promising chemist to an emerging medical student highlights perseverance, the importance of self-advocacy, and the power of embracing one's unique strengths.
Overcoming Challenges and Embracing Disabilities
Stephanie Moss, MD: You mentioned having some different challenges in school. Do you want to talk about some of those challenges that you had that you were able to overcome?
Mami, MS1: Yeah. I had a lot of challenges in high school. Like one of the challenges was like reading. I'm really bad at reading. I have reading disorders. So I try to go to college, but I Couldn't because I wasn't like my GPA was okay, the standardized test, like I was so bad at it even with accommodations.
So I actually took two years gap before I started my community college. So that was one of them. I would say like communication too, but I didn't really talk to like many people in high school.
So it wasn't that obvious. I was able to, chat, but that's something. Now I think that, I could have done more, but that's because I was really struggling to struggling in the social setting.
Stephanie Moss, MD: Yeah, that makes sense. Was there a certain individual or individual that really helped you or was a helpful mentor in your many years of school? Cause you've been able to accomplish so much in education, which is huge. Is there any individual or what allowed you to get to where you are?
Mami, MS1: Yeah. Yeah, I think so. The big change was in community college.
Before that, I wasn't really open to having accommodations because it sounded unfair.
And my parents are Japanese, like the culture and age is pretty much like Oh you don't like use accommodations or that's just not fair or, oh, it's just that disability awareness is not that, good.
At least like in Japan, I think. So I was hesitant to like, you know, time. And when I studied my community college, I was like that. But this disability specialist I met from school, he was like, no, you gotta do it. And I was already telling him about I want to go to, grad school.
So he knew GRE will be like very challenging. And he's if you don't use accommodations now, you won't be able to get accommodations later because all those, testing companies see your accommodations history and decide what you need. So that kind of advice was good.
So I started using like extra time or some other resources. And I realized that just Like I had the potential to succeed, but it's just I needed a little bit of help. And of course I did a lot of mentors throughout my, I guess the many years of education my current advisor my PhD advisor is pretty understanding and accommodating.
So even though like in the lab, it's very loud there and I get sensory overload. She sometimes let me, use her office, just lie down, take a nap, or she got me like an quiet office space, so that I can, re recover my energy. I'm grateful for, all those People who helped me get through my challenge time.
Stephanie Moss, MD: I love that you had really great mentors that really encouraged you to relook at accommodations. I appreciate that sentiment. Growing up, I didn't get accommodations and I wish I did. I probably would have been a lot more successful academically, you know with grades, GPA and MCAT if I had accommodations. But I definitely had that same sentiment of, oh no... I don't want any extra help. It's unfair. And that's not the case at all.
Mami, MS1: Yeah. You want to do it with that you think you can do it. Especially in science classes. I'm like, I love science, and I'm good at science. I know that, like, why would I need extra time for that? But Yeah, I think that kind of mindset, I think it's changing.
I will say the culture younger generations are using more accommodations, which is a nice thing, right? But still not many people have what they need or can get what they need, which is unfortunate.
Mami faced numerous challenges throughout her education, particularly with reading due to her disabilities. Despite her struggles with standardized tests and reading-intensive tasks, she developed unique strengths that set her apart.
Mami highlighted how her difficulties with reading led her to engage more with peers and mentors, resulting in an impressive publication record and the opportunity to finish her PhD a year earlier than anticipated.
Mami discussed the cultural attitudes she faced regarding disabilities and accommodations, especially within her Japanese heritage. Initially hesitant to use accommodations, it wasn't until she met a supportive disability specialist in community college that she began to embrace the help available to her.
Disabilities and Patients
Stephanie Moss, MD: I know you haven't had A lot of direct patient care interaction, but has your own personal experience with disabilities helped you in regards to thinking about their perspective?
Mami, MS1: Yeah, that's a good question. , I'm more empathetic to patients and trying to understand where they're coming from, like I'm more sensitive to like the cultural or like some other, different factors that make people concerned about like what are the problems they're having.
Because I can really feel, I had hard times too, and the doctors who helped me even with the small concern . I wanna be, like, one of them, really listen to people.
I think that having disability really helped me, be more empathetic.
I will say, I'm pretty good at attention to details so I work in the emergency department and it helps me do my job yeah, like the patient care part.
I can notice something that I guess a lot of people don't notice. Like one of the examples can be like it was a couple of weeks ago.
I saw this patient in the hallway bed, and I just offered blanket to the patient and they're like, Oh, how did you know I needed a blanket? I look at each individual, in some very small size, maybe, rubbing hands like this a little bit, or having a jacket over, themselves, something like that, and I can see, oh, maybe this patient wants extra blankets.
Stephanie Moss, MD: That is a really great example and I love how you used your personal strengths to see individuals maybe how they're acting those little motions, like you said, acting like they're cold.
Not everyone would notice that. Those details, but your strengths have given you that ability to be more attuned to those movements. I think that's going to make you a really good doctor of being able to, interact with patients in that way.
"I'm pretty good at attention to details so I work in the emergency department and it helps me do my job yeah, like the patient care part.I can notice something that I guess a lot of people don't notice." Mami
The Power of Disclosure and Advocacy in Medical School Applications
Stephanie Moss, MD: I know that you talked about applying to medical school and before, I think you said that you actually disclosed your disability. Can you talk about what steps you went through to be able to decide whether or not to disclose because I know that's a huge hot topic of should I disclose or not?
And can you talk about once you made that decision, how to go?
Mami, MS1: Yeah. Okay, so that's a really good question. So when I decided to pursue a career in medicine a couple years ago, I was like, okay, I don't know if my disability can, overcome all the challenges; well, I should say I thought I It might be difficult for me to get into my school for a lot of reasons.
And one of them is my, disabilities. So I listened to a lot of podcasts. I found docs with disabilities, Lisa makes from University of Michigan creates this like amazing podcast. And you have podcast is amazing too, but and I was. Learning about how to thrive with disabilities.
And one of the episodes was disclosure. And actually in the podcast though a lot of students said, "Oh, I didn't disclose or, it was too risky." Like, it made me sad because disabilities should be looked in a way that is like a strength, right? It is a strength, like disability is a strength.
So I just wanted to change that, like it didn't matter, maybe like I lowered my chance of getting to med school, but, which is fine, because someone needs to change this mindset of oh, " disclosing might lower chance of getting med school" it, it won't change, so I wanted to be one who encourage people like it's okay, everyone has weaknesses I guess the most important part is like how you address that weaknesses and turn that into like strength.
So in my application, I disclosed my disabilities in my primary application, secondary applications, even interviews. But I was very honest about my experience didn't exaggerate or do anything.
But also like show like the positive part of my disabilities. Like I'm actually like did this and I think because my disabilities helped.
Stephanie Moss, MD: I love that! You are an advocate. You saw that other people are struggling to disclose, and so you said I am willing to take the chance to try to change the culture and show people that they can do it. And I think your episode will be so meaningful to so many people, whether they have disabilities themselves, or hopefully even individuals who are reading these applications show it is a strength, disabilities is a strength.
What other ways did you talk about in your writing or in the interviews that your disabilities is a strength?
Mami, MS1: So in primary, I just talked about how I guess my disability experience helped me decide my career change. I did my, research in radiology, but I was also like thinking maybe I should focus on medical research, not clinical.
And having that perspective helped me like, okay, I want to be involved in like clinical work, not just research because there are a lot of health equity or social, determinants of health. And that's something I was really interested in, like passionate about so that I talked about in my primary essay.
And the secondary was more like details about my disability experience with all those like diagnosis disclosed, if there was, a chance, of course. Some of the questions were like what are the challenges you have? Like some typical my school secondary questions, right?
And then I explain, okay, so these are my weaknesses like reading struggles, which was obvious if you look at my MCAT scores. But I also say, oh, because I struggle with reading, I had a hard time reading papers in my PhD.
And researchers do read a lot to learn about current research. But I couldn't do that. So actually, I started talking to a lot of people, which gave me a lot of like opportunities to work with them.
So I was able to explain all that and I think that's one of them.
Stephanie Moss, MD: That is great. Oh, how cool of using, like you said, the challenge of not being able to read as well, to being able to communicate with others, learn how to form your own connections and resources.
I think that is something that people don't talk a lot about in medical school, but it's actually one of the most common things is going to these conferences and speaking with people, forming those connections, and that's how you get papers published, research published, that's how you get speaking invitations .
It is definitely not something that a lot of medical students, you're not taught, you're not taught how to form those connections. So that is a really good strength and I'm glad you brought that up.
Mami, MS1: Yeah, and I know like I met a lot of people with disabilities and they always see the disabilities as negative. And they don't even realize something they did, like something like amazing that they did actually related to their, their disabilities.
So I think finding the connection between their disabilities and a big accomplishment might be key in that kind of location.
Stephanie Moss, MD: That is a really good thought. I like that. Yeah, that's a good point of seeing that connection of how does it intersect? What are your strengths? What are your weaknesses?
One of the most compelling parts of Mami's story is her decision to disclose her disabilities during the medical school application process. Instead of viewing her disabilities as a hindrance, she leveraged them to demonstrate her resilience and unique perspective.
Mami’s openness was a deliberate act of advocacy to challenge the stigma around disabilities in medical education. Her story underscores the importance of highlighting one's strengths and turning perceived weaknesses into advantages.
Diversity and Empathy in Medicine
Stephanie Moss, MD: I love that! I know you talked about it a little bit of just the importance of breaking stereotypes and promoting diversity in medical education .
Do you want to talk about a little bit more of the benefits of having individuals with disabilities in the medical field?
Mami, MS1: Yeah um, having benefits. Like like no one will disagree.
not like diverse. I think disability is one of the like the paramount of diversity. And it's definitely a skill set.
It's how others see the world and learning that perspectives is important. So like whether , your med school class, or even a patient, different kinds of doctors working that humanize them, I think. I don't like to see like,
Mami, MS1: even if my doctor is so smart,, but if my doctors are all white cis men or something, it's just, I don't know. I don't know if they really understand my struggles.
Humanizing, medical professionals really help patients trust a medical system, I think. Yeah.
Stephanie Moss, MD: I love that you said that humanizes patients. I think that is one of my goals through this podcast is to really humanize health professionals and doctors to realize they're not just one aspect. They're not just the brain, the science the medicine.
Mami, MS1: Yeah, that's it. Yeah, intimidating, right?
Oh, this guy is so smart lots of titles, and do they really care about my, very small concern, or, that, yeah. Of course, like, all those doctors amazing, they care about patients.
Mami, MS1: I know some of my friends with disabilities, they actually prefer to see doctors with disabilities because they can really connect. And easy to disclose, like, all the struggles that they have.
Stephanie Moss, MD: Yes, talk more about that, because I think a lot of times we're missing the patient perspective. We talk about that we hope that patients will want to speak with people with disabilities. But yeah, have you had that experience of speaking with other health providers? Or your other friends? How have you found that being able to disclose more or talk with other providers?
Mami, MS1: I personally didn't have any physicians who disclosed their struggle,
well I guess there's some who informed me of like their experience as a patient too. And that help me like, oh, I'm more comfortable talking about my own experience my struggles, or my concerns because I just feel, I don't know,
I think patients need courage to sometimes discuss some of the problems, and sharing their own perspective really helped me do that.
I know, like some other friends said "regular doctors without disabilities don't get it." And sometimes I had that experience too when I'm like very overwhelmed in a doctor's office.
I just want all the lights off because it's very overstimulating but sometimes having that sort of like experience, they don't immediately get it.
And so when I get overwhelmed, I cannot use my like, like vocal words to express like Okay, "I want lights off" and I'm shut down and the doctor will be like "Oh, what's going on? Are you okay? Do you want to go to the ER or something like that?"
But no, like it's not like I just want the lights off. And maybe, do the physical exam, but maybe not touch my face or something because that makes me so uncomfortable or just give me some space. And I think having that experience as a patient will help like doctors see the same like symptoms in their patients, I think.
Stephanie Moss, MD: I'm really glad that you shared those experiences with being overstimulated and having difficulty using words to even say I'm being overstimulated and this is what I need.
Because I think sometimes people just assume that we can, that people can just say their challenges and say what they need. And that's really hard to do especially when you're overstimulated or triggered no matter your disability. I think about it a lot with people who have trauma.
When you're in that mode of so much emotion it's really hard to use your words and actually say I need this. Cause sometimes your mind just goes blank. So I liked that, you stated , that example, and hopefully that also helps some other health practitioners or even family members or anyone.
Individuals who are overstimulated, give them some extra grace. They just need some time. Maybe provide different options of what's helped in the past.
Mami believes that having individuals with disabilities in the medical field enriches the profession by bringing diverse perspectives and experiences. Empathy, understanding, and attention to detail are some of the strengths that Mami and others like her contribute to patient care. Her experiences have made her more attuned to the needs of others, enhancing her ability to provide compassionate and comprehensive care.
Mami's insights also highlighted the significance of humanizing medical professionals. Patients often feel more comfortable and understood when their doctors share similar experiences or genuinely empathize with their struggles. For Mami, the ability to notice subtle cues and non-verbal communication has been a vital tool in her patient care interactions, making her an exceptional advocate for her patients.
Advice for Aspiring Health Professionals
Stephanie Moss, MD: As we finish off, looking ahead now that you've been through so much education and life experiences.
Do you have any pearls of wisdom to pass on to other health professional students especially people who have disabilities. Do you have any advice to share with them from your journey?
Mami, MS1: Wisdom. I don't think I have wisdom, but something that I would say to my self, maybe a couple months ago, just believe in yourself.
I was very scared when I was, applying, like disclosing the low MCAT score, not taking a typical prerequisites, because I didn't have a lot of bio credit. So I'm like, Oh, maybe I'm not getting any interviews. I have to find a job. But I got interviews by more than one. And I got into med schools.
I can't say where because I think, before the April deadline it's not official. But I'm going to school like my top choice and I'm very excited and I just couldn't see that. When I was in that, like the moment of, like figuring out. Also a lot of people discouraged us to disclose, the disabilities in applications.
So I thought maybe I shouldn't have done that, but it worked out. And I think with disabilities, like you do experience a lot of challenges. And those challenges might be, like, very obvious. They might discourage you from going to med school, or going to whatever other career you wanna do. But it's gonna work out.
If you really want to do it it's gonna, it's gonna work out. So just believe in yourself.
Stephanie Moss, MD: Believe in yourself. That is such great advice. And thank you, Mami
Mami’s advice to other students, especially those with disabilities, is simple yet powerful: "Believe in yourself." Despite the various challenges she faced, her determination and self-advocacy led her to success. Her journey serves as an inspiring testament that with perseverance, the right support, and a belief in one's capabilities, achieving one's goals is possible.
Stephanie Moss, MD: I'm going to go through all the amazing things you talked about today. So You started off by saying that the first time you thought about medicine , you were in middle school and high school, and you were interested in being a surgeon.
You found a book on how to do surgical knots and were there practicing doing surgical knots. Got connected with being able to shadow some physicians. When you went through more of your education, you found that maybe chemistry would be more your skill set and your passion, so you went into chemistry, even got your PhD, you're almost at getting your PhD in chemistry. And then you had the opportunity to do some research , with radiology.
And using that experience to help you realize, Oh, this might be What I want to do the rest of my life. Being more into the clinical aspect of medicine and using that shift of noticing all the needs in the medical field and using your own experience as an individual with disabilities.
Use your strengths that you've been able to really [00:30:00] develop and hone in, use that as part of the reason why you want to be a doctor. To be able to connect with patients, be empathetic, really understand the cultural aspects of medicine.
You also talked about how your disability has allowed you to be very detail oriented is directly useful in medicine because you can see the body language. You can see the whole picture, not just what the patient is verbally saying, but noticing other aspects that maybe other people aren't as attuned to. Using that and so many other things as your strength.
Deciding to switch paths, go back into getting those biology classes. Even when you struggled with the MCAT, you didn't let that push you down. You didn't let that stop your goal of being a doctor. You kept going. You even took a step forward By being an advocate and saying no, the disability is part of my story, part of who I am. I'm going to disclose in my primary, secondary application and also the interviews and talk about it and it worked out.
People didn't just shut you down like it was. It was successful. And now you're going to be going to medical school. You're going to be a first year medical student. Also you'll be a medical student with a PhD and be an MD PhD. Not a lot of people get to say that.
You've worked really hard and I can't wait to continue seeing your journey.
Mami, MS1: Oh, thank You.
Stephanie Moss, MD: you're welcome., I just want to thank you Mami so much for joining in. I alsowant to thank everyone who's listening in.
If you liked this episode, please share it with one other person. It's so important, to use your community. Because that's how we can really share the awareness that doctors are human and people with disabilities can be in medicine and can contribute positively to the medical community.
So please share it with at least one other person that you think might benefit from these stories.
Also I like to say, If you're struggling, remember you are not alone in your experience. I remember that. During a lot of these challenges in my life. It's very easy to feel like you're alone and just remember you're not there are other communities.
There are other people out there that are struggling. So do not give up.
Thank you, Mami, for sharing your incredible journey with us. Your story is a powerful reminder that disabilities are not obstacles but sources of strength and resilience.
We hope this episode provides encouragement and motivation to all aspiring healthcare professionals, especially those facing similar challenges.
Stephanie Moss, MD: Lastly you can get in contact with me on my social media at @medpsycm oss and then you can also see my website, which has resources for individuals with disabilities, both patients and if you're a health professional, that way you can learn how to support other individuals.
Mami, if people want to get in contact, is there any way that you would like them to get in contact with you?
Mami, MS1: Yeah. You can email me at M A M I H. mamih@umich.edu So that's. Mamih@umich.edu that's my email.
Stephanie Moss, MD: Wonderful. Thank you so much for sharing that and I'll make sure to include that below and I'll also include the Docs with Disability podcast episode that you mentioned regarding disclosure.
I also was present during one of those interview presentation and you know what, that was also what motivated me to start disclosing in my residency application. So that is a really good episode. So I'm with you. I remember people saying that they struggled and they didn't disclose.
And I was like what type of advocate am I? If I'm not disclosing. So I was like,
Stephanie Moss, MD: I'm going to do it. So I'll make sure to link that episode down below. Thank you everyone so much. Make sure you subscribe to anywhere you listen to your podcasts. I hope to see you for the next episode . Thank you again, Mami for coming on the podcast, buh bye